Is Gibbs Reputation Getting Tight in Turn Two?

After a few months of being Loose in Turn 3, we've had a bit of an adjustment and now Turn 3 isn't the issue any more. The moderation has now become a 2-man debate process between Charlie Turner from On Pit Road and myself and now we're finding ourselves getting Tight in Turn Two! Man, when are the adjustments going to kick in?

~

This week, I wasn't sure what to say or think about the shimmy shim shim scenario that was going on in the Nationwide Series, but I thought I toss this out at Charlie with one perspective I have:

With Gibbs accepting every bit of the responsibility for the shims on the gas pedal deal, I find it refreshing. Yet who is going to believe him?

With outsiders looking in, NASCAR gets called America's Most Crooked Sport and it's gloriously colorful past gets pulled back into the present.

Circumstantially speaking, putting the shims on the car when you know the dyno testing rig is on-site sure does say something, but who ever did it, made a bone head move and didn't trust the processes already in place. IE: Toyota power plants having been dialed back a bit. (15 HP?)

Obviously several staff on the Gibbs Nationwide team felt it necessary to try this stunt. Or as DW calls it, Reverse Cheating, seeing as how the cars had to run with less power available to them through the entire race.

How does this make people feel about Joe Gibbs Racing, or the sport in general?

Bruce: I'm fine with it... as long as it doesn't become a habit. Things happen, people screw up and I doubt anyone is going to be trying such blatantly stupid stunts in the future. NASCAR is about innovation and looking for the gray areas and it's part of the process. So things similar to this will continue to happen. Not like this stunt, but similar. NASCAR insiders know this and then some accept it while other rail against it. It is what it is.

As far as the outsider goes, who doesn't know anything at all about the sport, but calls it names looking in from the outside, this stunt isn't going to help the image of NASCAR for a little while. As long as these larger things don't keep happening, the sport will be fine. But a few more incidents to add to Edwards CA deal and now this, could go a long way towards hampering the potential fan from checking out NASCAR.


Charlie (From On Pit Road ): I couldn't disagree with you more on the outsider thing.

Casual observers who are popping out of there racing "gopher hole" to comment on this infraction will duck their clueless heads right back down the chute as soon as the the send button is hit on their keyboards. NASCAR - and auto racing is all about getting away with whatever you can get away with. Call it innovation if you want. If the innovation isn't in the rules, the rule-makers might just call it cheating. And will happen again, just as soon as somebody thinks the risk of getting caught is worth the potential penalty.

Should JGR care about outsider opinion? As a NASCAR blogger, do you think that baseball is a bad sport when a pitcher gets caught doctoring a ball? When a football player argues with a referee about a penalty that the player clearly committed, do you say that the game of football is a joke? If you do, I call you a fool. It's all part of the game. And cheating makes it more interesting.

~~

Charlie over On Pit Road asked the question:
Who do we think the Fords will be filling their seats with next year?

Is Martin Truex Jr. Loose In Turn 3 At DEI???

Martin Truex Jr. is Staying With DEI.

Is there something on the horizon Truex knows that I don't? Or does he truly not have better offers out there? Or did the offer that might have been floating out there that he was waiting on not materialize?

I don't believe this is the best decision Martin Truex Jr. could have made for himself, but he's staying with DEI through the 2009 season.

There has got to be a compelling reason for him to do so, but I'm in the dark.

Loose In Turn Three:
With that in mind, I asked my peers within our Loose In Turn Three quorum what they thought.

Do they have any other insight or fortune telling skills I don't have that can shed light on the issue?

Because I surely am baffled!


Tim Zaegel of Do You NASCAR?: I don't think it has anything to do with him not having viable offers from other organizations - particularly RCR and Penske - but, it probably has more to do with the fact that neither of those organizations is where he wants to wind up at in the long run. Signing an '09 extension didn't surprise me in the least, but I don't expect him to hang around in 2010. I think he's holding out for either Stewart-Haas to field a third Cup team down the road, or possibly even a run with JR Motorsports should they decide to field a Cup entry.


Charlie Turner of On Pit Row: When in doubt, look for the cash. I suspect that

1. DEI threw more money at Martin than anyone else
2. He will be the lead driver at DEI and that will look good on the resume if he decides to move on
3. There were no openings at Gibbs, Hendrick or Stewart-Haas for 2009
4. The #33 RCR ride is without owner's points. Business decision.

News Source: Fox Sports
Image Source: Screen shot from MartinTruexJr.com
(With a little modification from me!)
~

With that being said, Tim and Charlie fired off their own questions and I had to think... ug...


Tim asked:
Did Goodyear finally clear their name in NASCAR with the success of their rain tires in Montreal?

Charlie asked:
Who is the best crew chief in the Sprint Cup garage right now?

Now Stewart is Angry Over In Turn Three

Last week we saw the old Tony doing what he does, and that's slap and snap at people.

We didn't see it at a NASCAR track, but at a USAC event.

It's been a while since he's lost his cool and it did surprise me, but only because we haven't seen it in a while. Home Depot / Joe Gibbs Racing had sent Tony to anger management training (Which probably ticked him off even more) quite a while ago and it seemed that at least on the surface, he was biting his tongue.

When you're told to stifle your normal behavioral patterns, it really sucks and ticks you off even more... oh, sorry, enough about me.

With Tony's The Home Depot team seeming to struggle in the traditional time of year when he usually starts to get his mojo on, and having the completely new realm of now being a publicly acknowledged* new team owner of Stewart Haas Racing, you have to wonder if the Tony beast is starting to stir underneath from the subtle but growing levels of stress that can be associated with either event.

Or is Tony just being Tony?

~~~

With that, I present to the illustrious Loose In Turn Three panel the following question:

With Tony Stewart Acting out over in USAC, what's that about? I thought he had gotten a grip on his outbursts? Do you think the stress of starting up a new team might be getting to him?


Tim Zaegel of Do You NASCAR?: You said it right there in your last line .... it's just Tony being Tony. I think taking on the role of a car owner in the Cup Series is likely to change anyone, and Tony's no exception, but at the same time, I see him as one of those guys that for the most part is always going to be who he is. If he feels like grabbing an official, then that's most likely what he's going to do. Tony's always had a hot temper, so I've had a tough time figuring out why this would shock so many people.

Charlie Turner of On Pit Row: It could be true that the stress of all that is happening around him is getting to Stewart a bit. It would get to any normal human, I would think. But I don't think the fact that Stewart got up in the grill of some USAC official had much to do with that. Stewart has and probably always will do things like that. In that way, he is much like his idol, A J Foyt. And nobody ever thought that stress got to A J much.


Of course it wouldn't be Loose in Turn Three without two other questions to round out the number three! Now would it?

So, Tim over on Do You NASCAR asks:
Q: Is Randy Moss' recent 50% purchase of what is now Moss Motorsports good for the sport?


And Charlie from On Pit Row asks:
Should Tony Stewart look for the hot, young prospect, maybe someone from the open wheel ranks, instead of a current, high dollar star like Ryan Newman for his second car at Stewart-Haas?

~~~

*I say publicly acknowledged team ownership because of something Shana Mayfield said in an interview. Whether it was looking back at, or knowing something then... That's up to you.
http://nascar-bits.blogspot.com/2008/07/jeremy-mayfield-wishing-for-ride-but.html

Tony Stewart's raging moment:
http://nascar-bits.blogspot.com/2008/07/stewarts-temper-flares-in-usac.html

The price Tony Stewart pays for playing rag doll with the officials:
http://nascar-bits.blogspot.com/2008/07/stewart-fined-for-being-stewart-in-usac.html

~~~

What's Up With Ryan Newman Being Loose In Turn Three

Hey, it's Friday. It's time to hit the pedal and get ourselves a little Loose In Turn Three with me, Tim Zaegel and Charlie Turner. Loose is fast, right?

These days, Ryan Newman is in the news and the rumors, no matter how quiet he stays.

He's way outside the top 12 with only 8 weeks to go. What's up? His big year was more about fuel mileage than kicking butt, yet he is slowly climbing the record books in pole positions. The man can be fearless behind the wheel. But yet, he's not up front every week in the No. 12 car.

The No 12 car in the Penske garage has always been in the background, never quite up there with the No 2 car... usually. I don't believe this, but I have to ask: Is the 12 car just getting the short end of the stick all the time?

With that in mind, I've asked my Turn Three peers the following question:

With the rumors of the possibility of Ryan Newman signing on with Tony Stewart under Haas-CNC, I mean Stewart Haas Racing, and Jack Daniels being rumored as his sponsor, do you think his on-track performance will finally improve?

I'm probably one of the bigger Ryan Newman fans out there. I've been subtle in my hopes for his performance improvement since the year he had so many wins, but those wins weren't so much about performance as it was about fuel mileage and the smaller fuel nozzle / jet sizes. I haven't seen him be too competitive in that No 12 car of Penske's. Then again, has anyone had the best of runs in the No. 12 car, or is it the drivers they snag for the car?

I think he's got it in him to get his butt back in contention and wheel his car to the front. His ever building number of pole positions says so to me, and though that's not racing itself, you can see he can at least drive fast! If this comes to be, then as I always say, 'Time will be the Telling Factor!'

Tim Zaegel of Do You NASCAR? says:
Man, that's tough to answer. I've always thought that Newman drove his car too hard to early at the beginning of his career and that was what was keeping him from becoming a complete racecar driver, but he seems to do a better job handling his equipment these days. I think the big problem with him right now is that he's gone through what, three crew chiefs now in the past three seasons, and the Penske stable as a whole seems to have hit a rough patch. Will his performance improve at a Haas CNC Racing team that featured both him and Stewart? Probably not immediately, but that all depends on what kind of equipment they're able to give him. I do, however, think that a move to RCR or even Ganassi would suit him well at this point. And, if he were able to somehow fanagle his way into a Gibbs car, then watch out.

Charlie Turner over On Pit Road says:
In the next couple of days Ryan Newman will officially become a lame duck driver. I have never seen one of those guys do anything significant after the announcement. Ryan hasn't done much since Daytona. There is some kind of disconnect at Penske. I don't know what it is. Maybe a fresh face is what's needed in the #12. But, for sure, the latest developments won't help that team's performance.

Anyone have any other ideas or thoughts to add to what we've said? Let us hear it here.

With that said, since I tormented Tim and Charlie with my question, they tossed out their own curiosities:

Tim asks on DoYouNASCAR:
With Tony Stewart's departure from Joe Gibbs Racing, who should they look to fill the #20 seat?

And in keeping with the swaps and changes, Charlie on BenchRacing On Pit Row asked:
It has been reported that Dale Earnhardt Jr's JR Motorsports has lost the Navy sponsorship for the #88 Nationwide Series car for 2009. If you're Junior, now what?

Is Penkse Team Loose in Turn 3?

So 1/2 way into the season with Hornish dabbling around the anti-illustrious 35th spot in owners points I had to wonder if Kurt Busch giving up his car points to Hornish hurt the No. 2 team overall? Being as how they seemed to stall this year in performance.

My thought is that yes, the points swap just might have done something to them. They have lousy garage spots, and though it must be nice to be trusted enough to have your points pulled from you because your car owner knows you can perform, what a let down it must be to have all your hard work go to someone who is being outperformed by Michael Waltrip.

I then posed this question to my cohorts in the "Loose In Turn 3" gang, Tim Zaegel and Charlie Turner:

Tim (Do You NASCAR?): To an extent, I can agree. You bring up an excellent point in terms of losing the garage spots and things of that nature, but that's still no excuse for the team running as lousy as they have all season long. They've got one of the best Crew Chiefs in the business and Kurt's a former Cup Series champion ... there's just no excuse.

Charlie (On Pit Row): Nope. Would the Busch/Hornish points swap explain Newmans miserable season since Daytona? Kurt didn't miss any races because of the swap. Allowing Hornish to make the races gave Penske three cars in every race. The data they were able to gather should have helped the team. Something else is missing there.

~

In our usual state of passing questions back and forth, Tim asks:
With the recent folding of Chip Ganassi's #40 operation due to lack of sponsorship, is this a trend we can continue to expect?

And with Mark Martin Looking to run full time in Hendrick Motorsports next year, Charlie wonders out loud
What will become of Dale Earnhardt Inc.

Loose in Turn 3: The Price of Gas These Days

by Bruce Simmons

It's Friday and we've survived another week of fun filled work. That means we're coming at your with another edition of Loose In Turn 3 (LIT3) Despite most of them being millionaires, or dang close to it, NASCAR drivers are saying that even they are feeling the pinch at the pump.

Traditionally, airplane fuel has always been much more expensive than automobile fuel and the teams are feeling the pinch more acutely as they shuttle everything everywhere: team members by plane, equipment by 18-wheeler. Eesh, that has got to be expensive with the oil system being able to freely boost and dump oil prices at their own whim.

The Gillett Evernham shop says it costs ~$1500 to fill up their semi that hauls around 80,000 lbs of equipment each weekend. For them, the last track, Infineon, was fairly pricey for them since their haulers had to make 2 stops going, and 2 stops coming from the track to the shops.

At the track, all the fuel is supplied by Sunoco, who we are reminded by the airwave media every time they mention the gas, it's the Sunoco gas. (Has to be some concerted effort via a request to be more consistent in their product placement. My guess, Sunoco wants to make sure there's no confusion about who the official fuel is while Shell sits on Kevin Harvicks Chevrolet.)

This upcoming weekend, Sunoco (The official Fuel... on never mind) will be bringing nearly 3,000 gallons of race fuel for the NASCAR event at New Hampshire. By all estimations, each team will be using about 64 gallons of gas just for Sunday alone.

The fuel is a special make of fuel designed for the race cars themselves, and is made in a refinery in Marcus Hook, Pa., near Philadelphia.

Obviously NASCAR is aware that folks are eying the sport in these fuel pricey times. NASCAR says:

"The NASCAR Sprint Cup Series uses about 135,000 gallons of fuel, racing from Daytona and all the way through to the [season-ending] Ford 400 [in Homestead, Fla.]. And that compares to 360 million gallons used by Americans every day."

(Ouch, why don't they just come out and say it: Carpool or pedal to work!)

With that in mind, I thought I'd toss out the following question to my LIT3 Gang:


Fuel prices are going up and up. Everyone, everywhere is feeling the pinch in every aspect of our lives. Our beloved sport is starting to be looked at as a gas guzzling sport. Should NASCAR and Sunoco make a concerted effort to convert the sport over to a less fossil fuel centric sport?

Bruce: No. Not yet. Some say it's necessary as our supply of crude dwindles, so inevitably, something has to give. But as far as costs and environmental impact goes, on the surface, ethanol looks attractive. The underlying costs of farming, processing and converting the crops into Ethanol offsets most conservation that is initially apparent, never mind the pollution that comes from the efforts noted. Solar NASCAR. It just doesn't have the same punch now, does it?

Charlie Turner:(OnPitRow) Nope. That wouldn't solve the gas price problem. This is too big an issue for NASCAR. Leave it to the manufacturers and politicians. They have to do the big work on this issue.

Tim Zaegel:(DoYouNASCAR) Look, I'm all for limiting the use of oil in every sense of our everyday lives that we possibly can, but with or without NASCAR or any other motorsports - this problem lies within the realms of since an politics. I think we're headed there, though, because alternative energy is the next step that our nation needs to take to stay ahead of the curb. So, in that essence, NASCAR needs to start thinking ahead. Manufacturers and oil companys are already planning for the next phase, and NASCAR needs to do the same. There's no need to impliment any sort of alternative fuel policies with the sport just yet, but they need to be ready for the day that the rest of the country does in fact go green.


Of course, the boys had their own questions to ponder in the group:
Charlie (OnPitRow) asks: After what we saw at Infineon Raceway, is there still a place for "road course ringers" in the Cup Series?
Tim (DoYouNASCAR) Pondered: Can the no. 16 team keep it together long enough through the next 10 races to keep Greg in Chase contention?


Inspiration for my article / question: http://www.boston.com

Is the COT Loose In Turn Three?

It's another glorious Friday morning, and that means another wonderful triple segment of As the Wheel Turns, or more to the point, if you turn it wrong, how "Loose In Turn Three" You'll get.

This week I brought to the table the validity of NASCAR telling the drivers to quit complaining about the COT. Tim of Do You NASCAR? asks if a 2008 Cup start is too early for the up and coming star, Joey Logano and Charlie is wondering over at On Pit Row if it's OK that Dale Earnhardt Jr. broke some rules and got away with it while winning a race?

So strap on in and let's see what everyone has to say, here where three guys have three opinions on three subjects at three blogs on "Loose In Turn Three":


Bruce:
When Mike Helton calls a mandatory meeting for drivers and team owners, you just know something bad has happened. But on this occasion, it was the basis of NASCAR telling the teams it's time to stop airing their gripes about the COT and let it settle in with the fans.

To some degree, I'm not surprised by this. As a professional bowler, (PBA), we have rules and guidelines. All athletes do. When you're first indoctrinated into them, it can range from humorous to confusing. In the PBA's case, one rule states that we're not to bash the lane conditions or the house management, etc., etc.. In NASCAR, it surprised me how much constructive criticism came out of the garages and now NASCAR has put their foot down.

Basically, NASCAR is saying "Quit bashing the product" and hence, fueling fans unrest about the new car. Or maybe also, quit pointing out NASCAR's perceived flaws.

So the next time we see a driver get out of car, slide to the ground from heat exhaustion on an 80 degree day and he's asked what's up, he'll just start talking about his crew and how well they set up the car, and avoid mentioning why he's beet red, or bright pink after he got out of the car.


With that being said, I presented my question to the other guys in our Loose In Turn Three forum to see what they had to say to compliment or correct my opinion:


Tim Zaegel: I don't really think that NASCAR's telling the drivers not to talk about what's going on with the car, but it's got more to do with the manner in which they address it, and from a business standpoint, NASCAR is spot on in this case. What's happened is that so many of the drivers have - at times - talked so poorly about the car and the tire packages, that what it's accumulated into is one big verbal lashing on the COT. In turn, what that's done is prejuduiced the average fan's mind as it relates to the car, and now NASCAR's left with a product that the fans are upset with. And, to your point, Bruce, we're still going to know what the issues are with the car - if from nowhere else, the race broadcast booth - but, the issues can be addressed without giving the appearance that folks are airing their dirty laundry.

Charlie Turner: The message that drivers have been sending - and Pocono was the worst example yet - has just been negative and whiny and bitchy. It is counter to NASCAR's marketing message and I think that was/is the problem. I can see why NASCAR would want that to change. I can also see drivers ignoring the request, unless there are some kind of real consequences should they do so. Tony Stewart paid lip service to the spirit of the request after the Michigan race.

So there you have it on the teams' COT opinions and ours. Check out the other questions asked and what we say in Loose In Turn Three:

Over on Tim Zaegels Do You NASCAR?:
Is a 2008 Cup start is too early for the up and coming star, Joey Logano?

Charlie Turner asks over On Pit Row:
Dale Earnhardt Jr broke a NASCAR rule at the end of Sunday's race at MIS, went unpunished and won the race. Do you have a problem with that?

Loose in Turn 3 for June 13, 2008

Welcome everyone to another rendition of our weekend pondering blog series. I’m joined here by Tim Zaegel of DoYouNASCAR and Charlie Turner from On Pit Row for our weekly rendition of “Loose in Turn Three”.

So another Pocono race has come and gone. And we will be treated to yet one more race there seven races later. Pocono just doesn't do it for me and obviously the owners aren't going anywhere anytime soon and their method of repairs seem to be strips of repair as opposed to total repaving projects like other tracks have done in the recent past.

If NASCAR retains two races at the facility, (And I don't see why they won't) I have to wonder if the track management should at least repave the track or is there something they can do to change up the action?

My thought is that it would be nice if they repaved the track. It might make for a wee bit closer racing. Heck, I'd would not even be against installing gradient banking in the corners and a dogleg out of turn 1 (turns 1/2?). Guys?

Charlie: What was wrong with Sunday's race? Did that short stretch of one turn that was patched cause the race to be bad? It was a great 500 mile race. 500 mile races, in 100 degree heat, are not enjoyed by any driver who doesn't finish first. Would re-paving improve the race track? It would make it smoother - and more of a tire tire which would piss off everybody who didn't finish first - again.

TZ: I've gotta go with Charlie on this one. I really didn't think that the racing was all that bad. It could've been better, but it wasn't bad. And, yeah, I think they could probably repave, but that would cost them a ton of money, I'm sure, with as big as the track is. But, really, I'm okay with them just leaving this one be.


Follow the rest of our discussion:

Charlie Turner - On Pit Row
- Would requiring race tracks that host multiple races, to have different race lengths for each race resolve the complaints of those who want to take races away from the Poconos and Californias?

Tim Zaegel - DoYouNASCAR
- Assuming that he was seriously contemplating the move, do the recent penalties awarded to Haas CNC Racing deter Tony Stewart from pursuing future ownership with that organization?

Loose In Turn Three, But Wreckin out of Turn Two in Dover

When a wreck happens, the yellow comes out.. the the yellow comes out, the field is frozen. When the field is frozen, you stop throttling the car.. it seems pretty simple to me. My disclaimer is that I was not in the car, and I am not sure when the yellow came out so I am OK with any corrections and what not, BUT with that said:

With that wreck in Dover on Lap 19, it was a high dollar value wreck that dragged some top 12 teams into the junk yard. Dale Earnhardt Jr was pretty much right behind the wreck and he got whoa'd up enough to not total his or another car, but what's with Mr "You throw a Rock, I'll Throw a Brick Back" Hamlin? He was much further back than Jr. and still managed to plow pretty hard into the No 19 Dodge of Sadler. On one good replay angle, it seems that Hamlin isn't even in turn 2 when Sadler starts his tire dance. He said he didn't want to stop suddenly to get hit from behind... Eh?

Hamlin passed a few cars that had avoided slamming into the melee at a rapid rate before hitting Sadler. So my question is more a statement, but I think Denny Hamlin could have avoided hitting as hard as he did because he probably could have slowed down a heck of a lot more... What's your guys take?


Tim: Honestly, I think folks came down on Denny Hamlin much harder than what the guy deserved. When the wreck happened, Denny was just coming out of Turn 2, which it's my understanding that it's very tough to see right there. These guys are already carrying a ton of speed at a track like Dover, and you've got to remember that just because we see the yellow come out on tv doesn't necessarily mean that the drivers do, too. They have to rely on their spotters and on the caution lights to tell them. Watching the replay, by the way, it looked like when the drivers first got a real indication that there was a pileup mounting, Bobby LaBonte and Scott Riggs were right behind him. Labonte ducked to the bottom of the
track, and Riggs just plowed his way right through. You can also see Hamlin trying to slow down, because his car was starting to slide when he hit Sadler. Just the nature of the beast, in my opinion.

Charlie: The comments that I heard during the broadcast surprised me. I thought it obvious that Hamlin either couldn't see the extent of the wreck or his spotter gave him late or bad info. Who knows what happened but my benefit of the doubt goes to Denny.

Courtesy of YouTube


(YouTube - a back up link in case the embedded part doesn't work here.)

Charlie Turner - Who is the most under-rated driver in NASCAR and how is he over-looked relative to his talent/value? On Pit Row

Tim Zaegel - Joe Gibbs Racing has won four times in the Sprint Cup Series this season, but in two years, they are the only Toyota team to win a race in Cup racing. Will a non-JGR driver reach Victory Lane in 2008? DoYouNASCAR

Loose in Turn 3 for May 30th, 2008

It’s Friday once again, and that means we're charging into the weekend too fast and too low and getting a wee bit “Loose in Turn Three” with your favorite blogging panel of myself, Tim Zaegel of DoYouNASCAR? and Charlie Turner from On Pit Row.

We refused to let go of the drama that was the Coca Cola 600 as we analyze the decisions of Tony Stewart and Greg Zipadelli on pit road late in the race. We will also examine the struggles of Dale Earnhardt Jr. to get into Victory Lane, and we also tackle NASCAR’s “great debate” … otherwise known as “Give and Take”.

So, sit back and buckle up tight. Three questions, three voices, and three different answers in Loose in Turn Three!

~~~~~

The question I ask this week has been raised in my mind because of a few incidents of late, the latest being Jeff Gordon and Kyle Busch where Busch got his panties in a bunch because Jeff Gordon kept racing him hard for position in the Coca-Cola 600. My question is whether drivers should get over the idea of people moving over for them because they think they're faster than they are:
(Image from SceneDaily.com)

Bruce: For some reason, I got the idea that racing meant racing.. not an endurance race with etiquette. In the classic car races where someone is driving a 50 year old car, sure, move over buddy, these cars are hard to repair, but in this level of racing in NASCAR, I don't get where some drivers expect to be given their spot and left to keep it. If you're slower than the cars coming up on ya, sure move over, it's stupid to hold them at bay but if you're competitive and all you're doing is stalking the guy in front of you waiting for their tires to wear down, I'm all for it. Basketball would be boring if the attitude was "Oh, excuse me, you have the ball, let me move aside for you..." NOT! Race 'em and make them earn it and make them work to keep their spot. Enough whining about it people, let's race.

Charlie: There is a difference between racing for position, blocking a pass attempt and clogging up the race track. Some drivers are more pissy about the being raced - or blocked - than others. My problem with the phenomenum in NASCAR is that this "unwritten set of laws" that usually be-fowl the new drivers is , well, unwritten. How exactly are you as a driver - whether the passer or passee - to know whose set of rules your are racing under? I say, get over it.

TZ: I think you guys are setting yourselves up for a Catch 22 situation here. Bruce, to your point, in the NBA, every basket of every second counts ... in NASCAR it doesn't matter where you're running at the halfway point, only at the end of the race. And, Charlie, to your comment about this being a phenom with the newer generation of drivers, to my recollection, I believe it was Mark Martin that laid the foundation for the whole "give and take" rule, and then Tony Stewart sort of enforced it from there on out. The fact of the matter is that it just boils down to smart racing. These are long races, and it makes no sense to have to use up everything under the hood for every position on the track on every lap, because if you do, there's not going to be anything left at the end of 500 - or, even 600 miles.

Tim Zaegel, DoYouNASCAR?:
Should the no. 20 team have called for two right-side tires on Tony Stewart's next-to-last stop at the Coca Cola 600?

Charlie Turner, On Pit Row:
Why Can’t Junior Finish?

Loose in Turn 3 for May 23rd, 2008

Welcome once again to yet another edition of “Loose in Turn Three.”

I’m joined by good friends and sometimes nemesis (or, at least on Friday’s), Charlie Turner and Tim Zaegel and this week we talk about some of the more current topics that you’ve probably found even yourselves debating over these last few days.

Over at On Pit Row, we decide what the most significant outcome was from last weekend’s All-Star Race, and over at Do You NASCAR, we’re going to re-hash the argument as to whether or not now is the time for Dale Earnhardt Jr. to bring JR Motorsports up into the Sprint Cup Series.

So, sit back and buckle up. Three questions, three voices, and three different answer … we’re about to get Loose in Turn Three!


With Kasey Kahne winning the All-Star race, does that vindicate the process of the fan vote for that event?

Bruce: With Kasey Kahne winning the All-Star race, it more than vindicates the process known as the fan vote. It's also good for the sport that the wild card fan vote actually did win. It means the fans are actually onto something as opposed to the last few years then only the popular driver was not someone who was even competitive. (Not sayin' anything bad about Kenny or Kenny or who ever else got it in previous years.) With that being said, had Gibbs not tossed out experimental motors in their cars, Kahne wouldn't have even been a blip on the radar screen of finishes.. Kyle would probably had lapped everyone at the rate he was going.

Charlie: Yeah, I think it does this time. Kind of makes the fans look smart. Then Kasey and his crew chief did the rest. The real validation will be if Kahne can win the 600 the weekend. It looks like he has a chance.

Tim: I don’t see how it wouldn’t. I mean, to me, Kahne was a guy that should have been in an All-Star race anyway, and I think that’s what the vote is really all about. In most other major sports, the majority of the All-Stars are selected by the fans, whereas NASCAR has only one … I think they’ve got a good system going with the makeup of the All-Star field.

Photo courtesy of paddocktalk.com

Loose in Turn 3 for May 16th, 2008

Yup, TGIF and we're still Loose In Turn Three; three topics, three voices, and three opinions.

Seasoned Drivers and When is it Their Time?

I'm a pretty big fan of some of the older drivers. For a while, I had almost every single diecast of Kenny Schrader, but as the young guns come in with their hyper successful seasons, the "veterans" not only get over shadowed, but the era (and technology) where they made their mark has come and gone. It's awesome to see Mark Martin in good equipment. It's great to see Jeff Burton having consistent performances, but Kenny Schrader can't buy good luck or a good team if it were free. I don't want to see him retire from Cup competition, but is it time? And if he does, will he actually do it right, like Rusty Wallace has, stepped out and stayed out, or will he keep popping back in like Sterling Marlin or Terry Labonte? No diss on those guys, just examples. You know who I do miss: The 'give it back as fast as he got it' guy, Ricky Rudd.

TZ from Do You NASCAR: Their time is when they decide that it's there time. I mean, it all just depends on what's important to that particular driver. I don't think that just because a driver isn't out there competing for wins anymore that it means they HAVE to get out, but that individual has to be okay with the fact that they're likely to later be remembered in a different fashion. While guys like Rusty Wallace and potentially Mark Martin will always be remembered by 95% of the fans as great drivers, a very large portion of NASCAR's fanbase are likely to forget that Bill Elliott was ever "Awesome Bill from Dawsonville", because all they've seen of him is what he's done (or hasn't done) in these last few years. John Elway said when he retired, "It's better to retire a year too early than a year too late." It's something that a lot of these guys should think about when they decide to run a 12-24 race schedule.

Charlie of On Pit Row: If a driver wants to drive - the financial rewards are substantial, if you remember the kind of bucks that Joe Nemechek and Sterling Marlin demanded from Bobby Ginn when they were let go – and
someone wants to hire them, I don't care if they run forever. I like having those guys around. If they aren't competing for wins, so what. But if one of them happens to catch lightning in a bottle, as Kyle Petty nearly did last year somewhere, it would be the best story of the year. I like underdogs. The kids will have their chances. Let the old dog's race.

Feel free to chime in and make this a four, five or six way conversation. The more opinions, the merrier I say!


To follow the rest of our three-way conversation, check out the following:

As a Team Owner, What 3 Drivers and Manufacturer Do You Start Your Team With?
http://benchracing.onpitrow.com/

Are the Dominating Seasons by Kyle Busch & Carl Edwards an Official Changing of the Guard?
http://doyounascar.com/

Loose in Turn 3 for May 9th, 2008

Welcome once again to "Loose in Turn 3". Here we go once again, chartering our mini-debates and hoping for more opinions on the subjects from everyone else.

This week talk has pretty much centered around the big wreck last weekend between Kyle Busch and Dale Earnhardt Jr, but we're here to remind you that there are still other things going on in the world of racing, as we cover such topics as the string of bad luck that's fallen on the lap of Denny Hamlin, NASCAR's supposed limitation on car owners to own no more than four race teams beginning in 2010, and we discuss the identity of the Nationwide Series. So, be sure to check out the other sites to get spun up, and hope you enjoy the read!

Denny Hamlin is having the Worse Luck in the World

Bruce: This is more a pity statement than a question, but do you remember anyone having the kind of crap luck that Denny Hamlin has been having this year? I think he was pretty gracious in his attitude that god just doesn't think he should win.. but wow.. amazing composure compared to Kyle Busch and his responses when he's taken out by some form of misfortune, that's for sure.

TZ: Oy vey. Ya know, I came into the season thinking that Hamlin might be one of the more overrated drivers in the sport, but here I am in 2009 wanting to consider picking him for the win nearly every week. He's proven to me without a shadow of a doubt that he's got the potential to be one of the most talented drivers in NASCAR, and he's put on quite a run this year ever since California. There's been a few hiccups along the way - the fuel pump at Bristol and the tire at Richmond - but, that's part of the package. Denny will be just fine.

Charlie: Hamlin unlucky? He probably lost that tire Saturday night because of an overly agressive camber set-up on his car. Something radical was likely done to make that #11 handle half a second a lap better than the field's next best cars all night. It wasn't luck. If I had to give the "Unluckiest Driver of 2008" award to anyone, it would be Jeff Gordon, not Hamlin. Hamlin has a win. Gordon could have had three.

-Charlie of On Pit Row
Should NASCAR drop the "ruse" of team owners only being allowed four Cup teams?

-Tim of DoYouNASCAR?
Do you think that the Nationwide Series will ever truly develop its own identity, and if so, what will it be?

Loose In Turn Three - May 2 2008 Edition

Welcome another exciting edition of "Loose in Turn Three" with myself, Tim Zaegel of DoYouNASCAR? and Charlie Turner from "On Pit Row / Bench Racing With Steve & Charlie".

This week we opted to tackle a variety of issues digging into the heart of NASCAR itself. We're going to open it up here by discussing whether or not NASCAR should make it common practice to take wins away from drivers when the occasion calls for it, thoughts on Dale Earnhardt Day and what we all think about restrictor plate racing. Hope you enjoy the read!

Does Dale Earnhardt Day Merit all the Attention it Gets on April 29?

Bruce: There are so many different opinions on that. Some pipe in and say give it a rest, others say it's not enough. The last time I had my keyboard slapped for saying something about Dale Earnhardt, I had to take a step back and understand that I admired the driver of the RCR No 3 car to the point that his passing left a hole in my NASCAR experience. I don't mind hearing his friends and family recount tales of their encounters. Heck, Steve Park's story was hilarious, thinking the voice mail on his answering machine to call DE about a ride was a hoax. I don't mind tales like that. You see it wasn't his driving that caught my focus. It was where he was and what he did to get there. The next time someone knocks me for having some regard for the man in black, I'll just ask them if they're OK with me knocking their role model down a notch. For me, Dale Earnhardt day is fine. It reminds me of my inspiration that I got from his example.

Charlie: Does the day merit the attention that it gets? It does if you think it's important. I put a lot of effort into my annual celebration of the anniversary Dan Gurney's run for President. But I have other plans for April 29th.

TZ: Umm, I think it definitely warrants a certain degree of recognition because Earnhardt truly was, in a sense, a pioneer for this sport ... or, rather, an ambassador. I mean, if we're going to recognize certain former Presidents, Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King Jr, etc. in the real world, then why not recognize Earnhardt in the NASCAR world? The only problem I see with it, though, is that I think we overplay it just a tad considering that we're not giving the same dues to other former greats that have since passed on. What will see on Benny Parsons' birthday, or Cale Yarbrough's once he's passed? An article or two on nascar.com?
The Rest of the Discussion:

- Should NASCAR Begin Stripping Drivers of their Wins?

- Would NASCAR be better off if it had never instituted restrictor plates?